Katie Wantoch
This is UW Extension’s Farm Management AgriVision Podcast. I am Katie Wantoch, Agriculture Agent with UW-Madison Division of Extension. I will be chatting with fellow Extension Educators as we answer questions from farmers and share our knowledge and expertise on how you can improve your farm management skills. Today I am joined by John Shutske, who is a Professor and Director of UW Center for Agricultural Safety and Health and an Extension Specialist. Welcome John to the podcast.

John Shutske
Yeah, thanks for having me, Katie. Appreciate it.

Katie Wantoch
John, today’s question is from a farm wife who with her husband and son milk 150 cows on their 320 acre farm in northeastern Wisconsin. They were finally able to start paying all of their bills last year and now with COVID-19 they are struggling again. Their lender has reassured them that they will get through this but she is worried about the toll the last five years have taken on her husband. She mentioned that she has tried to talk about to him about talking to a counselor or their priest or somebody, but he won’t listen to her. She’s worried about him and notes that he seems depressed. John, do you have any suggestions for this wife?

John Shutske
Yeah, Katie, first of all, I guess I want to commend this family for probably making some good decisions. Because it sounds like prior to COVID, things were beginning to look a little bit more positive. Having said that, right now, we’re in some stressful times, as we all know, and especially if you’ve got a family, you’ve got children, perhaps in the family and obviously with the economic conditions. When we start to talk about people who are stressed, when we talk about being concerned about another person’s health, especially their mental health, like these are really difficult conversations. They’re not easy for anybody, including those of us who work in this field, like on a daily basis. And sometimes when we’re talking about family members, you know, whether it’s husband, wife or partners or a child talking with a parent, it can also be scary to have these conversations. You wouldn’t think that but when you’re that close to a person that can be really difficult. I guess some thoughts I have are to try to find a way to talk, try to find a way to open the conversation. What I oftentimes tell couples is to try to get yourself away from the house, get yourself away from the workplace, you may want to go for drive, you may want to go for a walk in the woods or by your favorite creek or just whatever seems to make sense. Remind that person how much you love and care for them and the commitment to the family and to the farm. And rather than just saying something like, you know, I’m really concerned, you seem depressed, it’s probably better to talk about things you’re observing. It might be changes in behavior. It might be a person who was once very interested in the upcoming football season suddenly shows a lack of interest. Maybe that person doesn’t want to go to church anymore on Sunday mornings, or, or whatever it might be, but try to talk about the specific observable behaviors. And I think it’s also important to know that when you have these conversations, it is just totally natural that you’re going to get some level of, I’ll just call defensiveness. I’ll be honest, I am almost 60 years old. My parents are now in their 80s. When we have conversations about the future of the farm or about really sensitive issues like this, I get it. Even as an adult child, I get it with my parents. So just know that that’s okay. Come at it from a place of love, from a place of caring. Don’t take it personally, I think one of the things your person who wrote in talked about maybe being concerned about depression. So I do think it’s important to know the signs and symptoms of depression. I’m just going to give you a handful here. These are things that are identified by the National Institute of Mental Health, signs of clinical depression, especially one or more of these symptoms last more than two weeks. So some examples would be a person who is displaying like a sad or anxious or maybe they just sort of seem and feel and look empty. Maybe they have lost interest in hobbies and things that they normally would really be excited about. Again, I think about the upcoming football season. And right now it’s hard because of all the changes happening. But if there’s something that they have suddenly just dropped all in, it could be also interested in the family and the kids.

Katie Wantoch
And interest in farming. One example might be if they’re really took great care in their machinery or took great care in their cattle. That’s something that if you notice that that has not been taken care of in the last few weeks might be a good sign as well, correct?

John Shutske
Yeah. And that’s something also that that a person who’s maybe not a member of the family might observe. We do hear sometimes about Extension Educators who go out to do a farm visit or might be the local feed person or the veterinarian that shows up on the farm. Yes, a change in behavior, a change in the way animals are being cared for a change in the general condition of the farm. I guess some other things are maybe a little more physical and observable. People that have difficult time getting out of bed in the morning or the opposite. They just have a really difficult time falling asleep, staying asleep. People who have a sudden increase in appetite or they begin to lose a lot of weight. All of these can be signs or symptoms of clinical depression. But knowing those, and there are a lot of different resources, I guess I would encourage people to search the National Institute of Mental Health, or we actually have some Extension bulletins on dealing with chronic farm stress that’ll help you to kind of look for some of those signs and symptoms.

Katie Wantoch
Going back to the wife. It sounds like, you know, she wants him to reach out to somebody, are there ways that she can encourage him to do that?

John Shutske
Yeah, I think one of the first things is when you have the discussion, it depends on where that discussion goes. If you have a person that’s open to it, and like is looking for help or you know, admits to maybe some of these feelings sees some of these symptoms in themselves, they may be ready to go get some help. In other cases where they seem resistant, it’s okay, you have to be careful but it’s okay to find somebody in your community that you both share some level of mutual respect and trust for. I think about when I was young, I was in college, there was a guy in our hometown, little town in Northwest Indiana. And this man had been a former high school Vo-Ag teacher started Vo-Ag right out of college. He was also once he left teaching a local banker. So everybody in town knew this person. In some cases, we have community elders, we might have people in the church, maybe either formally or informally, but find somebody who you can initially talk to maybe get some advice, and that may be willing to have that same type of conversation with your spouse or with your partner. But again, it’s important to do it from a place of love and care. You do need to trust that person because these conversations obviously involve privacy, personal observations. So it does need to be somebody who you, who you can trust. The other person who I might recommend is your local county Extension educator. Or maybe it’s the staff from the Wisconsin Department of Ag Farm Center has some people that are often willing to talk to a spouse or to a partner.

Katie Wantoch
Yeah, definitely. And you know, I myself, have gone through your training that question, persuade and respond, the QPR training as well as Mental Health First Aid. And so those are some great programs that if you’re a professional, working with farmers that you can take, you know, to also know those signs as well. So anything else, John, that you want to add to the discussion,

John Shutske
There was one other thing I was thinking about. So we will talk about depression, we oftentimes talk about or think about going in to see a counselor or a therapist or a psychologist, and really, if you think about those signs and symptoms of depression, clinical depression, and stress, a lot of those are physical, and it may in fact, be not, it may be that the person is not dealing with depression, but maybe is dealing with difficulties sleeping. It might be an underlying health condition, it might be sleep apnea, they may have some other type of longer term chronic condition, but by getting in to see your primary health care professional. That’s kind of the starting point. And obviously they have access to referral sources to other professionals, including mental health professionals to which they could provide referrals. So I always tell members of farm families, when I when I’m talking to farmers, I’ll often ask for a show of hands. Like when’s the last time you got into your family Doc, and in many cases, it’d be two or three or four years. And we really do need to be getting in more often to see your family doctor.

Katie Wantoch
Definitely. Those are some great information and tidbits providing by Professor John Shutske today. And again, Extension does have a website extension.wisc.edu and if you look for farm stress, there’s certainly more information available. All right. Thanks, John, for joining us today.

John Shutske
Thanks for having me, Katie.

Katie Wantoch
For more extension AgriVision, podcasts or resources to improve your farm management skills, check out farms.extension.wisc.edu. Thanks for listening.